— What’s up, guys? Today, I’m with one of the rising female stars in poker from Ukraine, Olga—you know what? I forgot how to pronounce your last name! How do you say it?
— It's Lermolcheva.
— Alright, I got it right! Great! You’re well known, especially from your appearance on "Game of Gold." How do you feel you played on that show, and how do you think it represents your poker presence?
— I was surprised that they picked me for the show, and I’m very glad to be a part of it. I didn’t think I played particularly "cool", but I received a lot of nice feedback, and I’m happy that people liked me.
— From what I’ve researched about you, you have an interesting portfolio. It seems you mostly play tournaments, is that correct?
— Yeah, that's right. I mostly play live tournaments, but I do play online as well. People know me from live events because they can see me there.
— Fair point! When you play online, you’re just another player without much visibility, but in live poker, it’s different.
Now, I have two questions for you. First, do you find that there’s considerable money to be made in live poker? Have you tracked your earnings, or do you just enjoy playing? Do you think being a woman helps you win more money in live formats compared to men?
First, since I’m from Ukraine, it's relatively inexpensive to live here. I don’t need to earn a huge amount of money to have a nice life. I’ve spent most of my life playing tournaments and traveling, enjoying that lifestyle, so it has worked out well for me.
As for your second question about women using their gender as an advantage at the table, I honestly don’t know how to capitalize on that. When I'm playing, I don’t know how to leverage being a woman.
— Oh really? So you don’t often encounter men who have some weird complex and are overly aggressive towards you, or do they tend to fold more often? Do they treat you nicely or hit on you, doing something strange with their play? None of that?
— No, not really. Poker is a game where people are fighting for money. Many men especially don’t want to lose a hand to a woman. I noticed this early in my career; when people don’t know me, they want to play a lot of hands because they consider me a weak player. They think they can exploit their advantage against me.
— Okay, so they do act that way. I was just about to say that maybe all the guys have straightened out their behavior, and they’re all playing professionally now, with no more money in poker. But it seems there are still plenty of people doing what people tend to do—men doing manly things that sometimes embarrass the gender a little bit. I’ve heard stories from the ladies, and it’s sad to hear.
If it makes you money, there are definitely ways to profit off people who are overly eager to win—that's for sure. I think that’s a considerable edge. But what do I know? I've never really been in a situation like that. It can be annoying when someone just wants to beat you every hand, and you feel like you need to have something to fight back with. It can definitely increase the variance.
— One thing I've noticed is that I tend to overthink sometimes. A man might play a hand against a woman and think that I will fold more often, so I feel the need to call more. I call, and they usually show value hands. This happens to me all the time. I thought they would bluff against me more often, but no, they just play their hands against me like they would against any opponent. This overthinking hasn’t helped me.
— Fair point. It sounds like you’re touching on one of the biggest reasons, aside from your appearance on "Game of Gold," why you gained quite a bit of fame: your big win in Panama, over $100,000. It’s kind of a random tournament to play, by the way. To be fair, Panama is one of the more underrated travel destinations. Why Panama of all places? Are you also traveling to other parts of South America? I suspect you’re picking nice places to go so you can combine travel with professional play.
— Honestly, I’m a big fan of traveling, just like almost everyone is. I have this thing on my to-do list: I want to visit as many countries as I can. When I went to Panama, I had never been there before. A friend of mine was going to play a tournament there, and he said, “Let’s go together.” So we went. I want to clarify that he’s not my boyfriend, just a real friend.
We went there to play online, and he had won a package for a tournament. When we got there, I hadn’t even planned to participate in that event, but he encouraged me to play. So I thought, “Why not?” We arrived around 6 PM, and the late registration ended at 7 PM.
The buy-in was $2,500, which was quite high for me, as I had mostly played $500 and $1,000 tournaments. I thought, “Okay, it’s just $2.5k, no problem.” I remember sitting down at the table feeling very tired, and in the first hand, I lost half my stack. I thought, “Oh my God! I came all the way from Europe, invested a lot of money in this tournament, and this is it?” But somehow, I managed to make a comeback. Throughout the tournament, I was doing well.
I almost won it; in heads-up play, I was all-in twice for the win but couldn't seal the deal. Heads-up isn't my strongest point, unfortunately.
— I mean, it’s not like it's incredibly useful if you’re just playing tournaments, and the only time it becomes relevant is when you have to go heads-up for it. I don’t blame you, especially since, to get really good at it these days, you have to know your stuff inside and out. It requires a lot of study.
But I'm not like a pro in that sense; most of us aren’t at that level. Second place is still pretty good—second out of however many hundreds in that tournament, right? So, good job! It seems that this success attracted quite a bit of attention, and you received coaching from Eugene Katchalov and some PokerStars pros like Daniel Negreanu and Andre Akkari. Did that help your game much, getting different perspectives from these pros? I’m curious about your process and how you improved, especially since you’re not primarily an online player.
— I mean, I do play tournaments online and have a pretty substantial volume of tournaments, but I prefer playing live when possible.
If we talk about the promotion from PokerStars named "PokerStars Pro," where you had to win a tournament and then explain why you should be selected as a pro, I had two lessons with Eugene Katchalov and one lesson with some online team pro, although I don’t remember his name—it was a long time ago. From those sessions, I didn’t get a lot of information, but I did learn how real pros analyze hands and how they build their thought processes. I noticed what they pay attention to, and for me, it was quite different.
Also, Eugene is a good friend of mine, so I can always ask for advice from him, which helps me a lot.
— It sounds like the perspectives weren’t vastly different. Maybe there’s something valuable about being coached by different people, especially if they have different effective approaches to the game, right? You mentioned that the general thought process is what helped you, but you didn’t find a significant difference in their strategies.
— Exactly, I didn’t get a lot of new insights in that regard. What I did learn was more about the overall way to think about the game, focusing on what they analyze.
— It’s a little unfortunate that there aren’t more counterexamples, perhaps players with more unusual strategies that find success. Personally, I like the weirdos.
— You know, I think that being a woman in a 95% male game can be an advantage. I can ask any man for advice about a hand, and I believe most will be willing to give feedback. I can seek help, and they generally help me. I’m not sure if, as a man, I could ask another man about a hand and expect the same level of willingness to help. However, I don’t want to be annoying, so I usually don’t do that.
— If I were you, I would take full advantage of that. I ask people for advice all the time; I can be a bit relentless, and I might knock on too many doors!
— That’s creative thinking—using your advantage in that way. You ask for help, and they give you honest feedback, right?
— Not always, but I usually can figure out who’s lying and who’s truthful, and who I can trust. If someone deceives me, I often realize it eventually, and then I know I can’t trust that person.
Speaking of trust, have you ever been cheated in poker? I wonder if the experience of being cheated differs based on gender. It seems you’re not the type to get involved with shady business, so you might avoid situations where you could be taken advantage of.
— It did happen to me once. I made a swap with a player during the late stages of the WSOP. He made it to the final table but then ghosted me; he didn’t reach out or text me. It only came up the next time we met when he said, “Oh, I owe you money.”
In terms of honest gameplay at the poker table, I remember being three-handed in a tournament during a break. I saw my two opponents leaving the restroom and discussing something. I thought, "Oh my God, they might be plotting against me." I was worried they would try to team up and send me home, but in the end, I won the tournament. So, even if they were discussing something, it didn’t work out for them.
There might have been other situations, but for the most part, I believe that people don’t cheat, or if they do, I didn’t notice it.
— We should definitely talk about travel destinations! I'm currently in China, of all places. Let me just say, I’m ready to wear the Chinese flag. I've actually got a Chinese outfit on right now because I’m blown away by how incredibly amazing this country is. Certainly, there are a lot of cool things here. I don’t know what's going on under the surface, but for one thing, the government actually cares about its people. It’s a bit unusual, but not as strange as it sounds when you think about the size of the country.
I would have thought you’d want to visit Brazil or other exotic places like Colombia or the tropical islands. Is that not your style? Are you not a beach person?
— South America is still mostly unexplored for me. I’ve only been to Panama and Peru, but I do want to travel more there. I’m not sure if I would play poker there, though. I just don’t know.
— Maybe you should hit up Felipe and see what he has going on. He was running a couple of tournaments there, and I was very pleased with my time in Brazil. I would have thought you would be all about those hot travel destinations. Australia, by the way, has a pretty solid poker market. I know all the travel spots, and I figured you would too since you said you enjoy traveling.
— Yeah, I mostly travel in Europe because it’s close to home. Going to Australia isn’t something you do for just a week; you need to go for a month to really explore the continent and play there. It’s on my list for the future, but not planned yet.
— I kind of wish I had spent more time in Australia. It’s such a great place!
— However, one of the reasons I hesitate to visit Japan, Australia, or New Zealand is that after those countries, visiting anywhere else feels like it won’t compare.
— You have to treat yourself to the best experiences! If you immerse yourself in these amazing places, you can’t help but get spoiled a bit.
If you’re like me, you might want more than just the usual experiences! I’m not spoiled yet, but there’s always something new. If you go to China, it’s kind of on par with Japan, in my opinion. I’m discovering this in a bizarre yet lucky way.
And then, you know, you'll go to Dubai when the new casino at Ras Al Khaimah opens up. You'll be thinking, "Oh, this is awesome!" I didn't know about Dubai, but suddenly, Saudi Arabia is getting into gambling too, with the whole Middle East opening up. Then Oman gets in on it, and you realize there are loads of things to explore.
There’s even a beautiful coral reef outside Oman; I forget what it’s called. And Morocco has its own treasures to discover too. Why don’t you tell us about some of the best European places to travel?
— My favorite country is Italy; I can never get tired of it. I’m even learning a bit of Italian! I also love France—there are so many places to visit, and it’s so diverse, with delicious food and great wine.
I enjoy traveling to places like the Czech Republic or Austria as well. I’m not mentioning the United Kingdom because I need a visa for that, but if I had the opportunity to go there regularly, I definitely would. I love traveling, and every destination is so nice! I haven’t been to China yet, but I was in Korea, which I liked a lot.
I think that when I eventually go to China, people will like my blonde hair, just like they did in Korea. They found it quite unusual. I have a friend who works as a model in China; she's blonde with green eyes, and everyone goes, "Oh my God!" So, I want to experience that as well. I also enjoy Chinese food and Asian culture. I appreciate how they treat each other and behave in public. They're generally not loud, and that's very nice. So, I should definitely go!
— Well, being in China, you might as well embrace the experience. If you really enjoy Chinese food, then you’ll absolutely love it in China! South Korea doesn't have s*** on China; I'm sorry, but it just doesn't. There’s a level of advancement here that rivals even Dubai, and every single place is beautiful.
Now, okay, I haven’t been paid by the Chinese government to say this, but there are poker tournaments in China now, or there will be in the future. Hint, hint! There are also some tropical destinations in China. You didn’t even mention the beach, by the way. I thought you might be a beach person, but there aren’t any hints of that in your profile, to be fair.
— I don’t know; I like the sea, but I’m not into lazy vacations where you just lie on the beach doing nothing. I prefer to explore places, go here and there, try new foods, look for unique experiences, and buy something interesting. Relaxing at the beach is fine for a day or two, but I want to experience more.
I’d like to play poker in China because I have this goal of collecting flags on my hand history in MTTs. I didn’t know you could do that! I mean, if you go to a country and cash there, you get a flag on Hendon Mob. I’d love to play a tournament in China, cash, win, and add another flag to my collection.
— I want to know, would you say there is an advantage to being a woman in poker, such as in getting sponsorships or getting into games? Would you say that's the case? If not at the tables, we did discuss the dynamics at the tables, and you implied that there’s an advantage there.
— I think it’s very interesting to observe women at the poker table because they bring a different dynamic. I’ve noticed that nice poker players—and even those who are less skilled—add to the game, and it’s good to see more women participating in poker. I believe that this will help attract even more women in the future, especially if we create a positive community where women support each other.
I think it’s easier to get sponsorships as a woman because there are fewer women in poker. However, it’s not for everyone. I have a friend who is really good at poker, but she doesn’t enjoy streaming or engaging with fans. She prefers just playing poker without the extra attention. For me, I love getting attention and communicating with people, so it's a different experience.
— I think that’s a sort of yes—it’s advantageous to be a woman in poker, right?
— Oh yeah, absolutely!
— You’ve heard of Pocket Queens, right?
— Yeah..?
— Not the poker hand.
— Oh, then I didn't hear about that, no.
— That’s a community of women led by Victoria Livschitz.
— Oh, really? I’m a big fan of hers, but I hadn’t heard of that community before.
— You should check it out; they could use some support. I actually gave them a seminar once!
— That’s great! I didn’t know you were involved with them. Victoria is amazing. I support her wherever she plays. I remember during the WPT at the Wynn in the $10,000 Main Event—she sat at my table on day two, and I didn’t initially recognize that she was a pro. I was surprised by her performance; she’s exceptional at what she does.
— I had no idea she was one of your role models! I’ve read more about players like Jason Koon and Jesse Lonis—they have also been inspirations in my poker journey.
Jason Koon is a well-known figure, I’m a fan of his, too. On a side note, he big-timed me recently over text when I was trying to get him to support my fitness challenge. I’m still going to get you, Jason Koon! I know you care about fitness and staying in shape, but anyway...
Are there any other players you’d like to point out, perhaps female poker players who you think are good examples?
— Another person I want to mention, because I admire him a lot, is Jonathan Jaffe. His approach to the game is something I respect greatly.
Great personality, very fun! I’m a big fan of his too. Yes, he has his own podcast as well. Speaking of Jesse, he’s a really nice guy, and his close friend Daniel Cates is also a good person. There are so many nice people in the poker community, but when I talk to you, I sometimes forget names of players!
— I wanted to mention Liv Boeree; she still qualifies as a prominent figure.
I respect what she does because it’s quite unique in the poker world. She has accomplished a lot, including branching into the intellectual space, even having guests like Lex Fridman on her podcast. I’m curious, how the f*** did she do that? She also takes a more content-driven approach, making complex ideas entertaining and accessible, which is impressive.
— There are plenty of examples in poker of people who didn't seem to have natural talent but later excelled through hard work and discipline. What about you? Are you disciplined? Do you feel you have talent in the game?
— Honestly, I would say I’m neither disciplined nor particularly talented—that’s why I feel like I’m one of the worst players at times!
— Are you kidding?
— Sometimes I want to study and play, but then I end up taking long breaks. I was talking to Patrick Leonard recently, and he mentioned that he hardly ever takes breaks from poker—like, a maximum of one day without playing. That's a huge commitment! That level of devotion is just not my style.
— I’ve played a ton, and that definitely helps. It builds a lot of awareness for different spots, so when I do study, the effects are amplified. If you’ve played a lot and then study, you start to remember those situations better. You don’t need to study as much to retain the information.
So, how do you work on your game? What’s your method for figuring things out?
— I play and learn from my mistakes. My favorite way to study is by watching poker—I'm never tired of it! I can watch live tournaments for hours, though I know that’s not always effective. I’m not great at using all the GTO tools, but I do have personal coaching sessions with people who are much smarter than I am, and I find that really helps.
— That makes sense! I’m sure plenty of people would love to help you out. Getting some free help with solvers isn’t that hard, especially once you figure them out. It’s a pretty effective method; you make mistakes, look them up, and then realize, “Oh, I shouldn’t do that next time.”
— Situations like these will never repeat, as each scenario comes with different stages of the tournament, different opponents, and different stack sizes. While there may be similar tendencies among players, the exact same situation is unlikely to occur again. That’s why some people shy away from reviewing hand histories; they feel that each situation is so unique that it doesn’t warrant analysis.
— That’s the advantage of playing online—these situations can repeat online. You play a lot of hands, and similar scenarios will arise. It's not like you'll encounter very many unique spots in a single session.
— Maybe I’m just trying to convince myself that I’m not lazy. I keep finding excuses not to review hand histories.
— Whatever works for you!
Being a CoinPoker Ambassador
— You seem to be very optimistic about what CoinPoker is doing. Want to talk about that?
— Yes, of course! Not just because I'm their ambassador, but because I truly want to see poker grow and change. I want the game to become more popular. Anyone who is doing something positive for poker is doing a great job. At CoinPoker, we have a fantastic team, and we’re all very enthusiastic about what we’re building. I believe we have a bright future ahead, and I’m excited to be a part of it.
— What kind of changes are you looking for?
— To attract more players, more fish, more recreational players, and make the game.
— So, how are you going to do that? C'mon, we need to know the "how."
— What can I share about my team? They are very open to ideas from ambassadors. I have some followers who send me suggestions about what they want to see. In big rooms, like PokerStars and GG, I feel like they wouldn’t listen to my ideas or suggestions, but at CoinPoker, I feel that my thoughts are valued and that they can actually implement them.
— They do seem pretty open and flexible, which is commendable. I think they’ve made some positive changes lately, and their rake seems reasonable compared to some other platforms. Personally, I’m not a fan of GG’s rake structure, except in the exclusive games, but CoinPoker is doing well in that regard.
I’ve noticed that PokerStars also seems to be lowering their rake, so it feels like the industry is trending in the right direction, except for legislation in many live casinos. The terms and rake for many lower-stakes live games seem a bit extreme. I don't know too much about CoinPoker but they seem positive.
— Poker is experiencing a lot of regulatory challenges, but it remains very popular. Tournaments are constantly running, and records are being beaten, which is fantastic. However, I think poker may have a perception as a game for older players. Young people don’t seem to be as interested, unfortunately.
— Huh?
— If you look at the average age at the poker table, especially in live tournaments, most players are of a reasonable age.
I’m waiting for the day when I’ll be playing in senior tournaments! Soon, the pros who are dominating the game now will be competing in these events, and they’ll be my age. It won’t be easy! Young players aren’t coming into the game; they gravitate toward different games.
— That’s interesting! I would love to see some data on this. I would think many young people come into poker through video games, thinking, "What should I do next?" Then they discover poker, which is kind of like a video game.
— I doubt they’ll want to spend the time to truly engage with poker in the same way that older players have. It’s a process—what we call "going through poker."
They will spend their time on something else, I think. That’s my perception. If someone is considering whether to get into poker or crypto, I suspect they might lean toward crypto
— It seems like a more attractive option, although it doesn’t have the excitement of a video game. Instead, it looks more like doing research or getting involved in product development or coding. I mean, it makes sense to learn coding, especially with the rise of AI. You can’t go wrong there! I’m not sure how that space looks these days, though. It would be nice to have some data on it because I would think there are loads of people trying to become pros in poker.
– Oh, one more thing—when I started playing poker, everyone said it was going to die. They kept claiming, "There are just two years left for poker." I hear that all the time, and yet here we are. Poker is still very popular!
— I've heard that too. People say a lot of stupid things and never seem to learn from history. It requires a certain type of thinking to analyze trends, which isn’t easy. You have to view things from different perspectives than your own. That logic actually applies a lot in poker as well, but it can be challenging to think that way. It’s like trying to be someone else; you have to recognize how different contexts influence outcomes in the game.
People keep reminiscing about the "Glory Days." They claim they were back in 2005 and then in 2014 they say the same about 2008. It’s always about how things were better back then.
— Isn't it the same for you? Like things were better before?
— To be fair, things are definitely easier during certain periods, but there are still other opportunities out there. Sometimes things genuinely get harder, but not as much as people claim. They forget that there’s always a steady stream of movement in the game. Everything is relative.
f everyone is working in a certain direction, and you're also improving in that direction, you can remain competitive with others in that space. It doesn’t always work like that, though, because there are diminishing returns. However, new markets are opening up, like in Panama or China, where you can find opportunities. There are still plenty of people behind the curve, especially in places like South Korea, where events like "Game of Gold" are happening.
You know, Game of Gold wasn’t around back in 2010!
— The place where you are right now is a major market. What I like about it is that people genuinely enjoy gambling and playing, which is a huge opportunity.
