Joe Ingram: What have you guys been up to? Let's start with you, Phil.
Phil Ivey: Yeah, I'm still playing tournaments here and there. I mean, I haven't played a tournament in a couple months, but I'm going to go over to the Triton in Monaco. Then you've got WPT in December, so you know, I'm excited for that going forward. You know, I still love to play poker tournaments, cash games when it's presented to me and it makes sense. I still love playing poker and just try to remain out there a little bit, as much as I can.
Joe Ingram: Well, how are you balancing that? Because I know these Triton games are absolutely crazy. We've been seeing they're playing like 500, 1K, 2K. Then you have all these high buy-in events that you can play, which you're kind of been battling against all the wizards. So how are you balancing that? Because you're obviously doing both at a high level.
Phil Ivey: I mean, it's... I would say like every time I go and play a big event, I'm coming in quite cold. I don't play poker in my downtime. So for me, I find it a little difficult just coming in not playing. You know, when I was playing a long time ago or whatever, I was playing every day. So now I'm just kind of trying to get situated the first three, four, five days and then kind of get back into it. But it's just really difficult. I find it really difficult for me to actually grind poker.
Joe Ingram: So now it's more of a fun thing, take it at your own pace.
Phil Ivey: Yeah, it's just more of a fun thing. Like, I really enjoy playing. I don't play as much as I used to, but I enjoy it when I do sit down and play.
Joe Ingram: Yeah, I mean, talk about your bracelet this summer. You had a bunch of deep runs, you had a few final tables, you had many cashes. It seemed like you were locked in on another level. And we're seeing the old school people still dominating against these, you know, the new guys, the current guys that have been crushing for a while. You're still up there taking down the bracelet. And I mean, people were going crazy that day when you won. I don't know if you followed along with the hype online, but you know, talk a little bit about winning that bracelet.
Phil Ivey: I mean, anytime you win a bracelet is nice, you know. It's nice to be back playing again. You know, I took quite a long time off from poker, so it's just now, I have a new perspective, mindset.
Like, I really enjoy playing. Every time I sit down, I'm having a good time when I play. It doesn't feel like work. And you know, winning this bracelet is of course special. Hopefully, I win a few more.
Joe Ingram: Yeah, right. It's awesome. I mean, you still seem like you're locked in more than ever, battling.
Brad, you've been on a grind. I mean, I've been following your content now for a few years since, you know, we really got to know each other more. And you've just been locked in on the YouTube. You've got hundreds of thousands of people all over the world waiting to watch you play.
And now, you're really getting into the high stakes. You're battling in Bobby's Room, you're battling Legends Room still. I mean, you're kind of like going all over the world playing in games. Like, what's been going on with you? Seems like a roller coaster of just non-stop grinding.
Brad Owen: Yeah, it's been fun. You know, there's a lot of opportunities with World Poker Tour to go all over. I just came back from Montreal, going to Best Bet Jacksonville coming up, in Seminole Hard Rock in Hollywood. I was more of a cash game player before, and now I've, you know, had some success in tournaments the last couple years. But still haven't taken down like a major title yet, so winning a WPT is something that's kind of my main focus. December tends to kind of be my time to shine. Last year I ran deep in the 50K, which is awesome. I've gotten top 100 in the World Championship both years it's been running, so I'm hoping that this December is similar and I'll have some shots at some big scores.
Joe Ingram: Yeah, I mean, I know that's been your passion. When we talked about, you know, what are my goals, what are your goals, what do you want to get done, you talked about wanting to win a tournament because, like you said, you came up as a cash game player. You kind of made it to the highest stakes games, and then you started playing tournaments when you start working more with WPT. And then you're like, wait a second, these are actually pretty fun to try to win. So then you set that goal and you actually went really deep that one year for the 10K.
I think that's what fans love about it. Like when I go on your page, there's 700 comments. They're like, "Oh, we go get it!" It's so crazy, the amount of support that comes through with your vlogs. And I think you taking people on this journey with you has been, I mean, it's been kind of like groundbreaking for poker in terms of where it's taken content to in 2024.
Brad Owen: Yeah, I've been doing it for eight years now, and I think people have liked, enjoyed watching the progression from me playing $2/$5 to $100/$200 games. I got to play a year ago with Phil Ivey and Doyle Brunson and Phil Hellmuth. Like, that was like, if I could go back and tell my 16-year-old self that I'd be playing with, you know, the Mount Rushmore of poker in like a high stakes game like that that's going to be televised, you know, I wouldn't have believed it.
Joe Ingram: Yeah, surreal, right? Especially when you grow up in the game, you know, you come up watching guys like Ivey on TV, and then you end up, if you do content or you're making, you know, it's like you end up interacting with all these different people.
And what is it like for you [Phil Ivey] to see the new, the new generation of people coming up, making videos or making content, or kind of, I guess, being a part of the poker show or like the culture, however you want to classify it?
Phil Ivey: Honestly, I don't really watch much poker videos or content. But it's exciting watching the new players come up and, you know, seeing how they play, how they approach the game, you know what I mean? All the studying that's going on now and all the, you know, how the game has changed, is, how the game has evolved, you know. It's fantastic to watch.
Brad Owen: I mean, it's kind of interesting because you've been, you know, in poker for so long and you've kind of been through like two sort of poker booms, right? In the early 2000s, and then it seemed like it kind of dipped for a while, but I feel like poker's kind of back at its peak, in my opinion.
Phil Ivey: I think poker's back full. I mean, it's just, it's just getting better and better. The players are getting better, the way people approach the game, the work ethic of some of these high stakes players are like, is fantastic, you know. Like, I'm interested, I would be interested to see like if I was in my, I guess you can't go back in time, but if I was in my 20s and was able to dedicate the amount of time that people dedicate now to these solvers, what the differences would be, right? You know what I mean?
Hats off to them for all the work that's been put in.
Joe Ingram: I’m just curious what your personal approach has been to playing, considering you have the opportunity to go anywhere and play anywhere.
Phil Ivey: My approach to playing poker is if it feels good to me, then I do it. You know what I mean? If it feels good, like if I get invited to a home game and it feels like it makes sense, then I do it.
The same goes for poker tournament series. The Tritons feel good, WPTs feel good. You know, there's only so much time that I have now. I have a daughter, a family, and other interests, so it just needs to make sense to me. I can't say yes to everything.
Joe Ingram: How do you feel about safety? Being safe in these games and having to worry about the evolution of technology, you know, there are online tools that are becoming more of a conversation. Obviously, in live poker, there are many different ways that something could be going on. So, how do you think about that when you're approaching your games?
Phil Ivey: Well, most people I play with, I’m comfortable with. I've been around a long time, so I'm familiar with the good people and the bad people. The people who are going to pay; the people who don’t. It's really just experience. You know, I've been in games where there's been cheating, in games with shady situations when I was younger, but I'm not in those situations anymore because I know what to avoid now.
Joe Ingram: Interesting. What did you do when that happened? Did you go on Twitter and make a threat about it?
Phil Ivey: Well, you know I don’t go on social media. I’m not a threat guy. I’m not going to go on social media and blast off at people. I mean, we figure out ways to resolve the situations.
Joe Ingram: How do you think that should be handled if you're cheated in these games?
Phil Ivey: I have my own views on this that I would rather not discuss. Obviously, it's unacceptable to cheat someone; that's just unacceptable.
Joe Ingram: It almost feels like with how poker has evolved, you never know what's going on in some of these games. It's just so crazy. The question is, how are players supposed to think about this? There’s so much concern out there right now.
And imagine where it goes next, with these devices that could give players an edge, just like heads-up displays in online poker. As a player, how are you supposed to navigate this? Maybe the best solution is just finding people you're comfortable with and trust.
Adam Pliska: Absolutely, and I think you also have to find organizations that you trust. You know, you go down to the Wynn, and you’re not worried because you know it’s an organization you can trust. That's what we hope to leverage too
Phil Ivey: I mean, look at how much money the WPT has put so much into security. It's their number one priority. Finding an organization you trust is super important. Security is always evolving, and new threats are constantly emerging.
I think I’ll be having Tangan, who is one of the main security people, designing a system because I have questions. A lot of players have been asking the same questions: what are you going to do against this evolving technology? This is a big topic now more than ever, because you have the guy with the laptop [Editor's note: Joey is referring to Justin Tamayo in the 2024 WSOP] especially with recent scandals where people have been using real-time assistance. Fans are becoming more aware that this is something we really need to worry about.
Phil Ivey: Maybe the WPT should start beheading people that cheat. Maybe, maybe don't put that..
Adam Pliska: This is the difference between a professional organization and a nonprofessional organization. It's kind of like reinvestment in your business. In a year that you feel like, "God, I need to save some money," nobody will know if you didn't maintain, didn't put the new carpet in or whatever. You'd probably go another year, but you have to be disciplined. You have to be disciplined about spending money for security because it's not something that if I spend money on security today, you go, "Oh my God, I felt so much better." You don't know it's better until something goes wrong, and then you go, "Oh my God, this is a much better thing."
So the answer is, you just have to align yourself – and I'm not just talking about online, I'm talking about casinos, I'm talking about anybody, any organization – you have to align with people who are going to be professional enough to be disciplined enough to put dollars aside and say that this is going to be important.
Joe Ingram: Yeah, I mean, I'm surprised we haven't really seen that from a lot of sites. We've seen that from some sites over time, but not that many sites. And yeah, I mean, that's kind of the promise that now new companies are coming up and they're saying we're going to be more strict with security because now people realized technology and AI and everything has evolved, and the sites, the operators have got to evolve with it. And the marketing message behind this security has to evolve with it too.
Joe Ingram: I've been watching some of the streams and now I'm seeing names I never seen before. They look younger than ever, they all got a scarf on it seems like, and you're still there battling. I'm like, dude, Ivey's the GOAT. He's still battling these 23-year-old guy who's been on the solver for 10 years in their room. You're still out there playing these guys and winning. I'm like, what's going on?
Brad Owen: I feel like there's not that many people that I grew up watching that have still been able to compete at a high level. It seems like it's you, Negreanu, Seidel, and maybe a handful of others. What's your kind of take on that?
Phil Ivey: What's my take on that? I don't know. I'm fortunate to still be able to compete, right?
I mean, studying matters, of course it matters a lot, and stuff like that. There are other things that matter at a poker table also, right? There's a number of other things that really matter.
I don't think I want to go into exact details, but like, you know, there are other little intangibles that matter also. Like if you know a guy is well-studied, right, and you're playing against him, I'm watching intently. Like, okay, this is what he does here, this is what he does. The computer probably says this, this, this, that, and whatever, right?
So even though I'm not as well-studied as him, I understand what they're doing in different situations, and then I start to implement that into my different strategies. That make sense?
So like, they say this guy is like great or whatever. Okay, I'm gonna pay attention to what he's doing. Why is he great? What is he doing differently? Okay, he's playing this, he's playing slightly different from this guy. This guy is also well-studied, right? So what is he doing? How does he see it? Okay, this guy's doing this. So now I'm just putting all these different things in there and just trying to implement it into what I do, you know what I mean? And put what I do in there, what I think I do naturally well, and add some things from each player and try to come up with the formula that still wins.
Because I don't have time to grind the solvers. I mean, not saying I couldn't. Maybe one day I will, but I think, you know, what I'm doing right now is working, and this is what I'm going to kind of stay with.
Joe Ingram: Yeah, I mean, a lot of people wonder: Is Phil Ivey using the solver? Is he playing with the programs? Is he building a custom bet sizing strategy for any and all situations? People have been... They all want to know about that.
No comment?
Phil Ivey: No, I'm not grinding the solvers, but I have nothing against grinding the solvers.
I can say that I am going to grind the solvers at some point. I'm gonna, you know, at some point, I'm gonna take a deep... I'm going to take a deep dive and just... You know, when I mean, I don't do anything like halfway. So it's like, if I'm gonna do it, I'm going to go all the way. It's going to be like a 6-hour-a-day thing.
Yeah, I mean, you know, there's so much time in a day and stuff like that. I have other interests, and it's like... It seems pretty tedious, right?
Brad Owen: Seems like you're absorbing it and implementing it just through what you're seeing from the Jason Koons and those types of guys?
Phil Ivey: Yeah, definitely Jason and like all these other, all these other players or whatever. Also, I speak with Jason, right? Like, you know, I ask him about a hand. You know, I ask other players about a hand, you know what I mean? And the nice thing about the top poker players is they're... These days, they're honest, and they legitimately will answer you. You know, back when I was playing, like if you ask Doyle or Chip or somebody about a poker hand, forget it. Forget the answer you'll get, you know what I mean?
Nothing against those guys, may they rest in peace, but like, you know, the old school players are not going to... It was kind of like everybody for themselves type deal.
When I came up, right, like we... I want to beat you out of your money, and I'm going to do whatever it takes to beat you out of your money. And it's not going to include me talking poker strategy with you.
So for so long, I think what hurt me is that I never discussed poker strategy with anyone. Because at one point, I think people were so far behind in poker that it wasn't beneficial to me to discuss poker strategy with them, you know what I mean? So I just got in a habit of not really speaking with anybody, you know, and just being like separate from my peers, you know.
And so I had to, like, recently just kind of start opening up and making new relationships and being open to hanging out with poker players and discussing strategy. Because I felt so separate before from everyone, besides Daniel, who was always my friend, but I felt pretty separate from the poker community for like a really long time, you know.
Brad Owen: Jason shared a story on Twitter once where you guys were playing on an app, I guess, several years ago, and the river card came out. He made a big bet as a bluff, and you called him [on the phone], and you said that you couldn't see the river or something. He swears that you were just trying to get a tell on him.
Phil Ivey: I was trying to hear his voice, yeah.
Brad Owen: That's accurate, that you were trying to get a verbal or some kind of tell on him?
Phil Ivey: I was trying to hear his voice, yeah.
